Is A Pair Of Kings Good In Poker
Joker can mean two different things in a poker game. In friendly games, it can be used as a wild card or bug. It is also slang for a pair of jacks. We look at the best poker combinations of cards which you should be looking out for if you want to win big in poker.
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- Perfect Pair Poker is a local, family owned business providing quality entertainment while hosting professionally run Texas Holdem’ tournaments and ring-style games. Richmond Poker League.
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| Voting Style: | Open | Point System: | 7 Point | ||
| Started: | 9/6/2010 | Category: | Sports | ||
| Updated: | 10 years ago | Status: | Post Voting Period | ||
| Viewed: | 4,465 times | Debate No: | 13085 | ||
Pro King- 4 cards in the standard playing card deck with suits of diamond, club, heart, and spade. Ace- 4 cards in the standard playing card deck with suits of diamond, club, heart and spade In the event that a extra king were to fall into the deck, and the person has 5 kings as their hand, with the opposing person having 4 aces, the man with the 5 kings should lose to 4 aces. http://en.wikipedia.org... http://www.comedycentral.com... Con In the rules of Texas Hold 'Em Poker, a pair is better than a single, and three of a kind is greater than a pair, and four of a kind is higher than three of a kind. According to these rules, it does not matter if Aces are involved or not. Thus, if a player has the ledendary five-king-hand, than it would easily trounce the mere four aces of the other player, just like five twos would bet four threes if a two was accidently shuffled into the deck. The player cannot be punished for the hand dealt to him by the dealer, which is generally a professional, thus his hand should be considered 'playable' for the current hand, then have the extra king removed before reshuffling. I look forward to Pro's response. |
Pro My opponent's argument is that since 3 of a kind beats a pair, and a 4 of a kind beats a 3 of a kind, 5 kings must automatically beat a 4 of a kind. But, in poker that is not the case of a rare instance of a 5 of a kind. I would like my opponent to see the official rules of Texas Holdem, ranking the hands by strength. [1] You see there is no such thing as a 5 of a kind... since the rules and strength of a 5 of a kind has never existed, a person having 5 of a kind kings should by the standard rules seen as a 4 of a kind Kings with a King kicker. The 4 aces beats the 4 of a kind kings so in the real rules of Texas Holdem the person who has 5kings should lose to a person with 4 aces. Since the highest 'of a kind' established is 4 and anything else other than the 4 of a kind with be dubbed at a 'kicker' in a 5 card hand. I look forward to your argument. http://www.fulltiltpoker.com... Con Indeed, having five kings is not included in the rules of poker, but if the dealer dealt the card, then its part of the game if anything, the hand would be cancelled, and thus no one would win the hand. If they choose to play with the faulty hand, its a simple matter of counting, and five is greater than four. The only instance of the legendary five-king-hand to ever occur is during Futurama, and they ruled the five kings win, and the fifth king wasn't even a playing card. Realistically, the hand would be called off as soon as the fifth king appeared, and no one would be the winner. Pro has yet to prove four aces would 'win' against the five kings. Thanks, and I'm looking forward to your response. |
Pro As for disqualification, it should be called off, but in situations that involve money it is hard to tell. If I was dealt 4 of a kind aces, one of the rarest phenomenons in the entire poker game, it would outrage me that my hand does not count. If the person with 5 kings still tried to bet with 5 kings then they should have known that their 5 kings would be counted as a 4 of a kind kings with a king kicker, seeing as the '5 of a kind' is a power hand in poker that does not have any power or additional leverage over a 4 of a kind. They should lose just based on the fact that they still attempted to bet on their 4 of a kind kings with a king kicker. My opponent has made some good points, but you cannot argue with the official rule set forth, and in the event that the counted match between a person with 5 kings met a person with 4 aces, a person with the 4 of a kind kings and king kicker would lose to the person with a 4 of a kind aces and random kicker. Con You may have proved, if the hand continued, than the aces would, according to the rules, win. However, I don't think the hand would be allowed be to played. As soon as the player is aware that there is an extra king, it is reasonable to assume that the player would inform the dealer and other players something was not right, and the hand would be cancelled. It may be unfair to the player with four aces, but it would be unfair to continue the game with an illegal hand. A do-over would be the only fair thing to do in my opinion. In TV tournaments, the players cards are known to the officials in charge at all times, and they would most likely call off the hand if they noticed an extra card in the deck, and remove it or simply get a new deck. I would also like to point out, in an unprofessional game, if I was dealt 5 kings, I would hold on to it, knowing the laughs it would cause, and I think that home-poker games would allow the player with 5 kings to win, adding insult to injury to the player with four aces. Thank you for the fun debate. |
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| Total points awarded: | 2 | 3 |
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| Total points awarded: | 5 | 0 |
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| Agreed with after the debate: | - | - | 0 points |
| Who had better conduct: | - | - | 1 point |
| Had better spelling and grammar: | - | - | 1 point |
| Made more convincing arguments: | - | - | 3 points |
| Used the most reliable sources: | - | - | 2 points |
| Total points awarded: | 0 | 3 |
This page is based on a contribution from Jean-Pierre Coulon
Poker Menteur (= Liar Poker in English) is the card equivalent of a dice game known in Britain as Liar Dice.
Cards
One regular 52 card deck, plus 2 jokers acting as wild cards.
Although this game is not really a poker variation, it uses the usual poker hands with the same ranking. If you are not familiar with these, refer to the Poker Hand Ranking page.
Players
2 to 8, or even more players, but the game is best for 3 to 5.
The Play
Play proceeds clockwise. One player volunteers to start the first round and five cards are dealt to this player only. The player examines his hand without showing it, and declares a poker hand (see below for details of the possible declarations). The second player (the player to the left of the first player) has two options:
- he may accept it, saying 'OK', or 'yes', or 'I'll take it', etc.
- he may challenge it, saying 'liar!', or ' I doubt it!', or 'bullshit!', or 'go to hell! ' etc.
(Most often he will accept at this early stage of the game)
If the second player challenges, there are two cases:
- The first player's declaration was genuine in the sense that his hand contains the combination he declared. He proves it by showing sufficient of his cards to everybody to prove that he has what he claimed. The doubter loses one point.
- The first player's declaration was fake, in the sense that his hand does not contain the cards he claimed, so he surrenders by giving his hand back to the dealer, and loses a point. Like a player who 'folds' at real poker, he is not required to show his hand.
If the second player accepts the declaration, the first player passes the hand to him, of course without showing it to the other players. The second player examines the hand, and may try to improve it by exchanging from 0 to 4 cards, just as in Draw Poker, by discarding that number of cards, and receiving replacement cards from the dealer. Then he must declare a poker hand higher than that previously declared, whether it was genuine or not (see below for details of what counts as higher). The third player (the next player in rotation) may either accept this declaration by saying 'OK', or challenge it by saying 'liar'.
The round continues clockwise as long as players say 'OK', with the cards being passed around the table and the declarations going always up and up. When a round is interrupted by a player doubting, the player who loses the point has the advantage of starting the next round; the cards are shuffled and a new five card hand is dealt to this player. The player who starts a round may not draw cards at his first turn - he must immediately declare a hand.
The game continues until one player has reached an agreed number of penalty points, and loses.
Shuffling
After each challenge, the whole deck should be shuffled before a new five card hand is dealt, rather than continuing to deal new hands from the deck until it is exhausted. In any case, it is not considered a fair practice to memorize cards shown in previous rounds to help you guess if a declaration is genuine or not (as with card counting at Blackjack). Shuffling after each challenge prevents this.
Declaration and ranking of hands
When announcing a poker hand you must say which of the eleven types of hand you are claiming (see the poker hand ranking page for an explanation of the types - five of a kind is highest, beating a royal flush, because there are wild cards). You may in addition specify the rank of the combination, and if you do this you may also specify the rank of some of the other cards. Examples of possible declarations are:
- a pair
- a pair of nines
- a pair of nines and a six
- a pair of nines, a six and a four
When deciding what announcements are legal for the next player (who must go higher), a higher poker hand beats a lower one, and a more specific declaration beats a less specific declaration of which it is an example. For example:
- 'a pair of nines and a six' beats 'a pair of nines and a four' (higher hand);
- 'a pair of nines, a six and a two' beats 'a pair of nines and a six' (more specific).
Note that if you are challenged, you have to produce the actual cards you declared. For the following examples, suppose that your real hand is 9-9-9-4-4, and you are challenged:
- if you announced a pair, you can show two fours or two nines and you win the challenge;
- if you announced a pair of nines and a four, you can show these cards and you win;
- if you announced a pair of fives, you do not have any fives to show - you are a liar and you lose;
- if you announced two pairs, you show two fours and two nines and you win.
Newcomers to this game who are unfamiliar with regular poker should note how the hand ranking is affected by the side cards that go with a combination such as a pair or three of a kind. For example: 9-9-9-A-2 is higher than 9-9-9-K-Q, because the Ace beats the King.
Note also that there is no ranking of suits - all suits are equal.
Variations
Some play that a Flush beats a Full House. Some players do not count straights or flushes at all in this game. These variations must be agreed before the game starts.
There are several alternative ways of determining the end of the game, and the result:
- continue until one player has reached an agreed number of penalty points, and loses;
- continue until the sum of all penalty points has reached an agreed total;
- continue until all players present agree to stop playing for any reason.
The second method can be used as a friendly way to share the price of drinks between the players, in proportion to the number of penalty points scored.
In the Guide Marabout de Tous les Jeux de Cartes, Frans Gerver gives an alternative method of scoring which leads to a single winner. Each player starts with an equal number of positive points and loses one point for each lost challenge. When a player has no points left he drops out of the game. This continues until there is only one player left in - the winner.
Maxime Boisset reports yet another way of counting points. At the beginning of the game, each player gets 50 chips. After each challenge, the loser gives n-1 chips to the player that made him lose and one chip each to the other players (n being the number of players). For example, if there are 5 players, the loser gives 4 chips to theplayer that made him lose and 1 chip each of the 3 other players. With this scoring scheme, there is a premium for the player who is good at deceiving other players.
Strategy of Poker Menteur / Liar Poker
This advice was written by Jean-Pierre Coulon.
General Principles
Pay full attention to the declarations of the other players, not only those of your right hand neighbour, to help you guess until which moment declarations are genuine. Also pay attention to the number of cards exchanged. Do not lose track of the progression simply because a player suggested opening the window.
As we shall see, the strategy often needs be adapted to the number of players involved in the game.
The card exchange strategy may be somewhat different from that of regular Draw Poker. For example, if you have just accepted two pairs and a pretty high card, it is wiser to exchange three cards to try to get Three of a Kind, rather than exchanging one card to get a Full House. Needless to say that once you have accepted a fake Three of a Kind, you won't exchange more than two cards (except in a game for two players).
Do not take the risk of saying 'liar' simply because you think a declaration is likely to be fake (except with two players); you must also evaluate the likelihood of getting a genuine, higher hand after the draw. Does your left hand neighbour have good reasons for also suspecting the declaration? Saying 'liar' is a sort of sacrifice for the community at this game, so leave it to others when possible.
Which player should you cause to lose the round when possible?
There is an important strategy point that will dictate the next few ones: assuming the game is played clockwise, choose your declarations so as to cause one of your closest right hand neighbours to lose the round, rather than your left hand neighbours. The loser will start the next round, and if the loser is to your right, when the cards reach you, they will be relatively fresh, and your left neighbour will have few clues about that hand. The more a hand has been played before it reaches you, the more difficult to play it will be for you.
With a large number of players, do not lie more that necessary. There will be enough times where you are forced to. You are not there to give penalty points to your left hand neighbour, but to any other player.
How precisely should you declare your hand?
Consider that adding some precision to the last declaration is a valid declaration. Examples: 'Three Eights' following 'Three of a kind' is valid, so is 'Three Eights, and a Queen' following ' Three Eights', or 'Three Eights, Queen, Seven' following 'Three Eights, Queen'. So if you want to allow your left side neighbour to stay pat (i.e. exchange no cards), and add some precision to your declaration it is your problem.
When to declare a hand much lower than that present?
Is A Pair Of Kings Good In Poker
This is a tremendous favour to your left hand neighbour, but it helps to create confusion between the subsequent players when someone will drastically raises his declaration. But beware of the following: your left hand neighbour may say 'liar' even for the small declaration. If the small declaration is not actually present in the hand, you will be considered a liar. Example : 'two Queens' when there are actually four Queens is not a lie, but 'two Queens' when there are actually four Kings is a lie, unless the fifth card is a Queen and there is wild card involved in the four Kings.
Sabotaging a hand
For example assume Three Aces have been around for a while, with both side cards slowly going up and up. When it is your play, discard two aces instead of the two side cards, and declare something likely. If the hand continues around as far as your right side neighbour, you will have a tremendous advantage. But beware that is not unfair for other players to memorize card positions in the hand, and observe which ones you are discarding. Shuffling the hand before discarding, or hiding it under the table obviously betrays your plans.
When you start a round after having lost the previous one, resist to the temptation of having your revenge by starting with a gross lie like 'Three Aces' : experienced players have notions about Poker hand odds. There is nothing dishonorable in declaring just a single high card.
Players acting as partners and ethics
If you have agreed to finish the game when one player has reached a fixed number of points, it is the common interest of the other players to give penalty points to that player, by using underdeclaring and lack of precision. Beware that this may fail if this player is skilled, and you may be the victim. Are you sure that the other players understand the plan?
It is possible for a group of players sitting together to help each other from the beginning of the game. Such an alliance is definitely considered unethical in Poker Menteur.
Courtesy at Poker Menteur
Is A Pair Of Kings Good In Poker Tournament
- Do not speak when not involved in the current hand transaction.
- Declare side cards that go with a Pair or Three of a Kind in decreasing order, to facilitate comparisons.
- When you declare, do not pause between the words; it is unethical to trap your left neighbour into saying 'OK' before you have finished declaring.
- Announce the number of cards you wish to exchange aloud, when you lay them face down on the table.
- When you get caught after having declared a fake, high hand, do not irritate the other players by laying the first three or four genuine cards of the declaration face up one by one, to create some 'suspense'.
- When a round finishes, do not reveal information about what was in the hand when you held it.